“Joseph Comments on Rob Butts”
“The Scruffy McGee Metaphor”
“Everyone is You: Empathy and Compassion”
“Wisdom is ‘Whatever Works’”
Session 260 (Group/Castaic, California)
Saturday, June 21, 2008
Participants: Joanne (Tyl), George, Paul (Caroll), Gail (William), Caryn, Sarah, Gordon (Gilbert), Boris, Shireen, and Rumi the cat.
(Paul’s note: As people arrived, our central air-conditioning was failing, and the indoor temperature was pushing 90 degrees. Outside, it was closer to 115 degrees – the fourth day in a row of such high heat, something unusual for this time of year. Our normally sociable cat, Rumi, found a cool spot in the other room with Sarah, who was playing on her computer. There were three fans blowing as the session began, which made transcribing this session a challenge.)
(Rose arrives: 4:45 PM. Arrival time 20 seconds.)
ROSE: The way of spirit is a sort of fine-tuning of who you are already. That’s all it is. The way of spirit has no pretensions of being anything other than allowing you to be the best self you can possibly be. So to say this in a way that makes sense to even the small ones: the way of spirit is you in every way. You are spirit. You are the way of life that you provide for yourselves. We’ll explain.
The way that you go about the days sontering the best that life has to offer is really all there is to it. The way you go about sontering each other is really the way of spirit, and is also only loving compassion.[1] That’s all that the way of spirit really is, but there are some things that help you get to that, in a sense, and getting to that is sometimes the tricky part.
That’s why we offer the really wonderful practices that we do.[2] So you can trust that following them will get you on your way of spirit faster than any other thing – book, tape, contrary Rose sessions – everything. The way we describe the teachings are as really wonderful practices that complement the teachings in ways that we suggest are allowing of your best, healthiest, most contrarily happy self that you can possibly imagine.
To take on Rose allows you to get the best self you have in you, for it’s all in you. We just try to alleviate the burdens you carry, so you can allow the free, creative things that you find beautiful in your beautiful lives, for they are indeed beautiful in every way. We see them as that. If you’re not seeing them as that, then we suggest you try to be more like essence so you can see the beauty in every moment of every day. So do so, and we’ll allow your questions if you’d like tonight. (10-second pause in which Jo chuckles.)
PAUL: She’s opening the floor.
I’ll throw out a question, since no one’s diving in, that I wanted to ask two weeks ago, but we were on a roll that night, and I deferred. Rob Butts, who is instrumental in the creation of the Seth Material, passed away on Memorial Day, and he was a profound influence on my life and many, many others. I’m just wondering, Rose, what you would have to offer from your perspective about his impact, his presence, and his immediate afterdeath experience if you are so choosing.
ROSE: We are doing that now. In some respects, the weany girl is sontering him now. Do you have a sense that he is real in every way here and now?
PAUL: A sense, sure.
ROSE: Do you sense that he wishes to allow you to speak to him directly?
PAUL: I know that’s a possibility.[3]
ROSE: We’ll allow him to, if you’d like, but we want to say also that the testing has begun. So stay tuned to the Robert Butts Channel. (Laughter) And we’ll suggest that you can talk to him directly. We’ll give that a try now, okay?
PAUL: Bonsai! (13-second pause)
ROSE: You have a sense that he’s real, in your terms, as well as alive in every way. Now try to imagine him sitting here now. He is here now.[4] So, what do you want to ask him?
PAUL: My first question would be: what’s it like to cross over after all you’ve done in this lifetime? What was your initial experience like, Rob?
ROSE/JOSEPH: It was, at first, a bit of a shock to us. In your terms, we are more than Rob, and when you go from time-phase to a non-time-phase, you get more than just you in a physical sense. So Rob is wanting to assure you first that he’s not singular. He is not only not singular – he is not Rob, he is Joseph, and that is what is coming through now.
Joseph wants to say to you that we are genuinely thrilled at the way you have allowed us into your world. We wanted to express to you that you have the means to allow yourselves to really sink your teeth into your essences, as we suggest Rob did, and his legacy is exactly this. The things you have in your lives would be directly attributable to Rob – Robert Butts – as well as to Jane Roberts. And so, doing the things you do are the ultimate way to honor their legacy.
So to take on the things you do when you compare the Rose information, for example, to the Seth information, you get more than both together. You get a sort of second reading that is in every way provided in the differences that they hold together. So when you compare Seth with Rose, and in many ways you do, you allow yourselves to get even more from them than you would had you only studied one or the other. And in this, you have more things to do with your lives than you ever expected was possible.
So when you fear only the things that would be considered foreign to you, remember that the Seth phenomenon was also completely foreign to us, and we had to learn to become foreigners, in a sense. So when we became foreigners, we found our freedom – we found the way that would be considered most comfortable for us. So consider yourselves foreigners, but realize, too, that there is more foreign country now than there was when we began our sessions so many years ago.
Foreigners have a unique ability to carry the seeds of many things with them. Foreigners have the ideas that are often lacking in many societies. This is the wonderful world that you live in, and who better to offer the things that need to be shared in the world than foreigners? Indeed. So the Ilda action[5] that Rob had going for him was, in many ways, this foreign relations sort of activity that we were most realizing of.
In his day, he was, in many ways, the best ambassador we could have wished for. He was a gentle soul. He was a [very] talented individual. He was a writer – in many ways he wrote the Seth books as much as Seth did and Jane did. He had a sense that the words needed to be comprised also of his very intimate details, as well as experiences, that framed the messages so very eloquently.
He had a sense that time was, in many ways, relative and in this, he found great ways to study, because he had a gift for dreaming, and he allowed the dreaming self into his world in ways that are considered remarkable even by us. He had a sort of longing for the dream state, and in this, he did allow himself to enter into the domains of the art world in order to realize the ontologically respective arts, in commercial arts, and then in the very fine arts that he allowed himself to invent. The best art is that that is from the heart and the soul, and what Rob did in inventing unique worlds in his artistry, in many ways, was his greatest accomplishment.
He had a beautiful sense of the dream state. He was able to existentially belong to the dream world, in a sense. This gave him much contentment in his later years. He had some difficulties in his relationships and he strove to be a geanius man – and he was. He held, in many ways, the sense of self that you all aspire to. He had a sense that his was an essence-filled life, and that is why the things he did were so very potent.
To say this another way, he was a great spirit, Rob was, and he is with you in many ways every day, for he is exactly interested in the things you do, and in getting the wonderful Rose information out, because he knows that the way he went about doing his Seth thing was, in many ways, only the beginning. And he does have a very strong interest in helping the Rose agenda to perform in ways that the Seth information could not – only by virtue of the fact that when the Seth material was informing the world, it was doing so in books. And now you have the many faceted technologies at your fingertips, literally, that you can find the best ways to go about being the foreign ambassadors yourselves.
So he is extremely interested in allowing the best expressions of self for you as well. Take him into your hearts, and you’ll see how he is truly helping you in every way, in every day. So do so, and we’ll allow you to ask him questions if you’d like.
PAUL: Just as a follow up to that: at the end of The Nature of Personal Reality there’s a cryptic statement by Seth where he says, “And centuries to finish what we’ve just begun,” which always tickled my imagination as to the possibilities of future lifetimes, reincarnational remembrances, and future focuses, and so on.[6] And the other part of that is: I’ve come to understand, only through Ken Wilber’s work, the concept of “Lineage Mind,” which does not originate in Framework 1 – does not originate in the physical world. It’s an expression of the Frameworks 3, 4, 2, whatever. And it’s only been in recent years that I’ve understood that this Rose information, Kris, and Elias specifically, are part of what I believe is a Lineage Mind. So I’d like you to comment on that statement in The Nature of Personal Reality, and the idea of Lineage Mind from your current perspective.
ROSE/JOSEPH: Very well. You can consider this as a state, of sorts, that is beholden to essence, in a sense. The sense is in you, but the wonderful lineage is in essence. So to say that Lineage Mind is not you is somewhat a distorted thing. Go to the Web and search any term. What do you get? You get some things, and you don’t get some things. Right?
PAUL: Relevance and irrelevance.
ROSE/JOSEPH: Exactly. Relevancy is the key to understanding Lineage Mind. There is not a linear progression to this.
PAUL: Right.
ROSE/JOSEPH: This is a controllable thing. To say that there is a control to it takes on a sort of sense that there is a need for control. There isn’t, but there is a control that comes from relevancy, and the control helps to determine the Lineage Mind that you’re discussing at any given time. The foreign ambassadors would like to also remind you that the way you have of determining that Seth, for example, is in your Lineage Mind has to do with what you’ve been exposed to only.
But there are multiple lineages that you are allowing through your realization of teaching, dear ones. So Lineage Mind helps to organize some content, but is not exactly the wonderful sort of lineage that teachers sometimes use to say what they’re wanting to say about lineage. They are sometimes overrated, the Lineage Minds.
PAUL: Mmhm.
ROSE/JOSEPH: They are sometimes a sort of a means to provide some politics behind the teachings. There is no reason to do this so very much, but there is also – to allow the sort of comparisons that we talked about earlier with Seth and Rose. So you do this already.
Seth, Elias, Rose are all in the same lineage in some respects, but these are not hard and fast rules. They are applicable to other things that do make themselves take on things that you don’t even need to know about, in some respects. The many focuses you have, have a sense of lineage in some respects. The challenges you have in allowing their perceptions through at some times, and even in the way you do one thing or another, sometimes provides a sort of linearity, but in some ways there is no linearity.
Also, there are ways to consider that some linear things are very geanius, and this would be one of them, because there are dealings that the teachings have with each other that are quite promoting of their own wisdom. Differences are, indeed, important. So look to your lineages to allow yourselves to compare and contrast the differences and the similarities in the teachings, indeed.
Okay, is that as clear as mud?
PAUL: Yes.
ROSE/JOSEPH: Okay, good!
PAUL: Any comment on The Nature of Personal Reality?
ROSE/JOSEPH: Yes. The book was written when the time was in the seventies, as well as the sixties. There were some wonderful things that occurred in the seventies that spun what was given in the sixties, and by the time the books made the book jackets, there were differences in them.
When we began the Seth realization, we had a sense that there would be a groundswell – and there was – but not in the way we realized, because there were probabilities that were in tune, in some ways, with a great expansion that did not occur.
PAUL: Hmm!
ROSE/JOSEPH: Your wanting to get some information about the wonderful shift is why you’re asking the question. There will be some remains to be had, but the groundswell is happening now, and there is some indication that it will be the best one yet, in probabilities, that is.
So when the books were written, you could say there was not much steam – now there is, and there will be more as you begin to accelerate the teachings in ways that you’re doing at this very moment. So learn to predict the swell, and learn to achieve the surfing of it, because it will be very big indeed.
Do you want to ask us another question, dear one?
PAUL: Yes. Earlier I saw Joanne shed a tear, and I wanted to confirm that that was Joanne’s tear and not Rose’s tear, or Joseph’s tear, or Rob’s tear. There are four Aspects that have been bouncing around here in the last few minutes.
ROSE: That was a very geanius question, dear one, and we’ll say that was the weany girl’s tear.
PAUL: I thought so.
ROSE: She is projecting much onto Rob – Robert – and we’ll say that it is deserved in every way. She has a common intent that would be considered very similar to Rob’s[7], and she does allow him into her ways very much. So she did shed a tear for her friend in spirit, indeed.
PAUL: Okay, and then just finally, you mentioned tests earlier on. I’m not sure what that was all about. I’m not sure to this point in the Rose phenomenon about other personalities coming through. Although, I did get an energetic feel with the Joseph energy being stronger, and yet I noticed that the tenses shifted – there was a royal “we” from the Joseph perspective, and then there seemed to be an “I” from the Rob perspective.
ROSE: You’re correct that it was a shifty question, because that was indeed what was going on. There was an intense shift back and forth between both the weany girl, Rob, Rose, and Joseph. So you did get a bit of a triangulated session that was testy, because it was not entirely Rose, and you did pick up on this. It was Rose in the respect that the mediating function was there, but the Joseph set of essences did do their thing, in a sense, without us in the way.
PAUL: Right, so the function of the Rose persona, for lack of a better term, is as a traffic cop or a mediating force to not overwhelm Joanne.
ROSE: That’s exactly right. The mediator is Rose. The mediator isn’t allowing only Rose, but allows every essence that wants in, in a sense. And Joanne has knowledge of this, so this won’t be a shock to her, but she can imagine anyone and get some of them already. And sontering them is, in some ways, the same thing you do already – all of you. In sontering the essences, she gets more because she is more open. That’s all.
And this is not rocket science. This is truly how you are evolving, in many ways, so don’t think of this as a foreign body in her. It’s not. You are all things, so imagine that you are that, then find ways to connect, then find ways to express in every way. You do this without thinking. You are only getting to know this a bit better through Rose right now. That’s all. We are demonstrating things that are truly educational right now.[8]
Okay, dear one? Any more questions?
PAUL: Thank you very much, no we’re good.
ROSE: You’re very welcome.
(To the group) Any other things to discuss?
PAUL: We’ll turn it over to other folks.
ROSE: Dear ones? (George clears his throat)
Okay George. (Laughter) You’re on, big boy.
GEORGE: What she said about Joseph, and the tests came up, I said, “Oh, Jesus!”
PAUL: I know, I know. It puts you right on notice. Oh, I do have one follow up question – thank you for reminding me – before you get George now for his bi-weekly testing. Just for the record, Serge Grandbois who channels Kris, Kris calls him Joseph as well, and I just want to confirm that that is a different essence tone…
ROSE: It is.
PAUL: …than Seth’s Joseph, which was Rob’s entity name.
ROSE: That’s correct. The essence name is the same, but essences are very different.
PAUL: Okay, good.
ROSE: Very different. We mean very different (Paul laughs), because they do have many different focuses, but none are truly the same, and their intents are also different. So take that as a way to say, “No,” dear one.
PAUL: Thank you.
ROSE: You’re very welcome.
Do you want to have a bite to eat first, then come back?
PAUL: Sure, it’s hot. We can take a break if …
ROSE: Okay…
PAUL: …nobody’s burning up with a question.
ROSE: …let’s take a break, and we’ll be back…
GEORGE: With tests.
ROSE: …with more wonderful tests, dear ones. Okay, you’ve got it, George.
PAUL: Thank you Rose.
ROSE: You’re very welcome.
BREAK: 5:18 PM.
RESUME: 6:28 PM.
ROSE: The weany girl is revving up for the next version of “What’s Your Question?” So do take into account that we are waiting for you to also tell us what your very intentional names are – very intentional, in many respects, for you need to do this exercise to assist us in assisting you. So we will open the floor first for those who have decided what their intent names are, indeed, dear ones. Any takers?
PAUL: You’re holding us accountable for homework?
ROSE: Mmhm. You’re all interested in allowing Rose to assist you, aren’t you? Then why not do the things we do? Don’t take yourselves too seriously about this, but you do need to allow yourselves to learn from us in order to get to the heart for yourselves – the heart of the teachings is to allow you to connect to essence directly. Do so, and we’ll assist.
So, what do you have for us today dear ones? Hmm? (The sound of fans whirring….)
Okay, well, then if you don’t have any intent names tonight, please do take heart and take in the information on the website about intent names, and we’ll allow the weany girl and boy to make sure it’s there in the practices.[9] Then you’ll want to tell yourselves to do that, for you’ll find much there, to say the least, in getting to the way of spirit for yourselves.
Now, with that we’ll turn the floor over to dear George now for your questions, dear friend.
GEORGE: Hi Rose.
ROSE: Hi, dear George.
GEORGE: Could I please have my friend Diablo’s family? And is he a Sumari?
ROSE: He is Sumari and intending to turn Sumafi. He is Sumari belonging-to and Sumafi aligned-with. We mean that he is wanting to express himself in Sumafi ways in spite of his Sumari belonging-to. He has some resistance to his alignment now that could be corrected if you would share the information in ways that you’re comfortable with. He needs to allow himself to do the things he wants to do, and these are Sumafi things.
GEORGE: And is his orientation soft?
ROSE: Yes.
GEORGE: Yes. Could I please have essence name – I am sure he might like to know that.
ROSE: Essence name, (14-second pause, then slyly) Scruffy McGee.
GEORGE: Not again! (George laughs) The question is…
JOANNE: (Chuckling) I’m sorry, this is Joanne.
GEORGE: I thought I was Scruffy McGee, I was supposed to be Scruffy McGee…
ROSE: You have much in common with this friend of yours.
GEORGE: Well, from all the physical people I’ve met, he’s the one I share the most focuses with – like 411. So I’m sure there’s more besides Scruffy McGee, that’s what, a nickname?
ROSE: We are, contrary to your beliefs, testing you about Scruffy McGee, but do take notice that you do have a sort of fine-tuning going on in your essence name. So you have more to learn about Scruffy McGee, and that’s why we mentioned it, not to tease you, okay? So we’re using that as a means to teach you more about yourselves – both you and your friend. So allow us to tell you more about that in the future.
But for now, we’ll say that the way you have of finding him in spirit is absolutely wonderful. You have a sense that he’s a connected sort of friend, in many ways, and you do have many focuses together, including the one that Scruffy represents. Okay? So he is an archetype, in a sense, that you both explore in another focus together. That will be all for now. We suggest you try to connect directly with the focus that you share together as Scruffy, in a sense.
GEORGE: So Tahiti Rose is also a Scruffy? (Joanne chuckles)
ROSE: That was a sort of play on Rose that Sarah connected with.[10] The way that she connects with Rose is as a goddess, and she is well suited to be identifying with the goddess Rose. That’s why we shared that focus name with her in that way. It was a sort of metaphor for how she inhabits the world we do, in a sense – spiritually, you could say. Every girl could use a bit of the understanding goddess in them. So we are taking a special interest in her, because she needs that right now. So allow her to be Tahiti Rose whenever she wants to be that, indeed.
GEORGE: Okay.
ROSE: Now, you have another question, dear one?
GEORGE: Uh… no.
ROSE: Okay. Do tell us when you feal like it, the thing you’re thinking. Okay? (Pause)
Okay, we’ll continue to express to you all that you have a very geanius way of finding your friends in spirit. You all have focuses together. We’ll give you a tiny bit of information about the ones you share together. Okay?
Now, what do you think you are together, dear ones? This group right here. What are you in another focus together?
PAUL: (Humorously, but sontering the group) We’re probably the Scruffy McGee Raiders. (Group laughter) We protect a piece of turf in Ireland, in the UK, and herd farm animals and raise potatoes and other vegetables.
ROSE: That was a very geanius way to get the point across. The way you can use the imagination is why you need to do that more than you do now. In other words, you can invent any kind of situation that you’re drawn to and have the kind of sense that Paul does about how that occurs, because you invent these things in your now time, and when you do – the weany girl will tell you this – you invite certain probabilities into your future, as well as your past, and you do allow more of you to come into you, in a sense.
So when you dream of Ireland, you dream of your animals. You have a sense that you create them in your now, sometimes. But when you don’t, we suggest that you consider that you’re inventing entire lives. Sonter them now; sonter who you are as Irish Scruffy McGee’s who herd sheep, who grow their own vegetables, who live in moss huts, who wrongly accuse each other of violations to just piss each other off. And when you do, try to imagine how that would feal. How does that feal? How do you feal now?
Like what? Like moss habitants who learn, in many ways, how to survive together. That is a very wonderful thing to find out. So your Scruffy McGee focuses have as much value – sometimes more value – than any focus you have as a Queen or a King. Do you follow why we’re taking you here to the ragged shores of Ireland in the late twelfth century? In many ways, you have more to you than you can imagine.
Why not start by simply imagining how you are then, and discussing amongst yourselves what that feals like. Do so now. Let’s talk about how you find value in supporting lies about each other. How does that support the idea of value fulfillment – when you’re wanting to kill your neighbor for only wanting to make their way the ways that don’t suit you? How does that feal to you?
We suggest you can try to illuminate the other members of your city, using that term loosely. Now, how do you project onto them what you felt then? (To Boris) We’ll start you off, dear one to my left. Why did you take on the plain truth that we were not sleeping with your wife, and turn that into a lie that resulted in the punishment of both your wife and me?
BORIS: (Confused) Huh? What?
ROSE: (Joanne laughs) What did you do when you were caught in a lie when you were an Irishman in the twelfth century?
BORIS: Huh?
ROSE: (Joanne chuckles) Let’s say you were caught in a lie in the twelfth century in Ireland. What do you do then? You what? You deny it. Let’s just say you deny it. Then what do you do? You feal what?
BORIS: Bad.
ROSE: Bad. (Group laughter) Exactly. You feal bad in every way. For one thing, you lied.
BORIS: For one thing, I got caught. (Joanne chuckles)
ROSE: Then you got caught in the lie, which didn’t make you feal any better. You felt maybe a little silly, or stupid for that matter. You did find ways to get the heck out of your way, but then what? The lie did what? It caused what to others?
BORIS: Bad things? Suffering?
ROSE: Exactly, suffering. You caused suffering in them.
BORIS: Right.
ROSE: Okay, now, to take this on is a key factor in supposedly – we mean supposedly – enjoying your focuses. It doesn’t matter, in some ways, what the exact focuses were in Rose’s book. The point is to allow yourselves to identify with everybody in the world who ever lived – whoever lived in the cities, in the towns, in the makeshift lean-tos.
Everyone is you. Everyone suffers. Everyone causes suffering. So what to do about that now, dear ones? What do you do about this now?
GORDON: Well, I have something to say about that, because if you investigate what is the cause of the suffering and you become that other person, you get an idea of their reality, that takes you out of your reality and into theirs. Then you can have some kind of compassion and dialogue – hopefully to resolve things and also to better communicate with that person.
ROSE: That’s exactly right, and you do allow yourselves to do this to some degree already, but when you feal like it, at times, or when the situation is not that stressful for you. When you get to resolve things like why you held the Nazi party responsible for the lies they invented to make others suffer. When you can fully acknowledge they were also suffering, in some ways, that’s when you’ll achieve what you came here to achieve.
GORDON: Mmhm.
ROSE: Not just the easy ones like the Biafran children, not just like starving individuals in your streets. These are somewhat simple ways to allow empathy. These are easy ones, as terrible as that sounds, of course. But you realize….
GORDON: I see that accurately. We kind of take on what we feel that we can handle in our own self – sometimes that’s at our convenience.
ROSE: That’s exactly right. This not to say this is wrong, not by any means. This is good. Compassion is good. Yes?
BORIS: Why do we have to pass judgment of what your point of view happens to be at the time? What constitutes your advantage? Because someone is starving doesn’t mean they’re less happy. They may have a better frame of mind than someone living in a mansion. Just because you make all these silly little preconceptions: someone’s poor, that therefore they must be unhappy, or what not. That’s just plain silly.
ROSE: You’re easily fooled by the good and bad scenario. The good and bad scenario is not exactly that. To say this another way: don’t take the good and bad too literally either, because this is too pat, also. Okay? The call to compassion is one that involves compassion. This involves truly getting into the suffering of another. Don’t discount the suffering of others. They do suffer, but you are absolutely right that you can allow yourselves, also, to find ways to not judge the suffering. This is truly difficult to discuss, because there are no blacks and whites in this situation, but to say that there is not suffering is not a good thing, if that’s what you…
BORIS: Does empathy involve meddling in other people’s affairs? Is it something that you just got to? At what point do you interfere? At what point do you just let people have their experiences? Isn’t it other people’s jobs to have their own path, and if suffering happens to be on their path, then that’s their path, not mine?
Why should I interfere with what it’s like for them? Who am I to judge anyway, you know? All I can do is try to be happy myself, and if someone doesn’t get along with me, I’m just going to stay out of their way, you know, I’m not going to get along with them, because, you know, they don’t resonate with me, “see ya.”
ROSE: You have a geanius way of saying that you do not need to be concerned with the suffering of others. This is really not completely true. The suffering of others does affect you even though you may not really allow yourself to notice it. Okay? Just blocking suffering doesn’t make the suffering go away for either you or the individual. You do suffer when others suffer, you do, and when you find ways to try to help, you don’t suffer as much, but sometimes you can’t do anything about it. That’s correct, but you do need to try. You do need to try to end suffering. That’s the whole point: to try and do your best in the world.
You, in many ways, won’t try because you don’t feal that you can make a difference, but you can because your trying does make a difference. And that is why you need to do that. You need to reach out – in your own ways – in order to relieve both your own suffering and theirs, because why, dear ones?
GORDON: Well there’s a certain amount of harmony that you want in your life, and you want to extend that to others.
ROSE: And because why?
CARYN: Because we are all each other?
GORDON: Yes!
ROSE: That’s exactly right. They are you. They are you in every way, and the focus information – getting back to that – is exactly that. It’s an exercise to help you move out of the thinking that you are a singularity in the world. You are all Scruffy McGees. You are all Tahiti Roses. You are all Queens and Kings of every kind, indeed, and when you realize this, that’s when you really learn the way of spirit. That’s when you really know how to be in your own skin, by reaching out to others, too.
BORIS: So like you say, nothing is [inaudible] in life. This is all good, but you know, at which point, where do you draw the line? When does compassion become judging? When do you start meddling in other people’s affairs by trying to control them, convincing yourself you’re trying to help them?
ROSE: That’s a good question, Boris, because you’re correct that sometimes it does go into areas of ineffectiveness. When you overemphasize what they can’t do for themselves, that’s when you feal that you’re not helping, right? So that’s why empathy is important – getting into another skin to know exactly what to do and when to do it. Empathy helps you know what to do in the way of compassion to others.
GORDON: But there’s also an appropriate time and place to do that, and that comes with instinct.
ROSE: Exactly, and empathy is a very important part of that, indeed.
Wisdom is what? Any way that works, in some respects, right? Wisdom isn’t some far-fetched way to be. It’s a way of doing things that works for whatever circumstances are at hand. It’s fine. There’s no source of final, absolute ways to learn to do things. At any time the circumstances could change, so wisdom is very time-sensitive, and situation-sensitive, to say the least. So wisdom, we will define as “whatever works.”
(Acknowledging the encroaching heat. It must have been 95 degrees.) Okay, now to continue. We want to allow you to have a bit of “cool” effort in your way of spirit. We would like for you to break for now, to allow you to cool off and be the best, cool, (Joanne laughs) “donning of coolness teachers” that you can be. Try to tell each other how you think the world would be if you did actually allow yourselves to believe that you are all of the individuals in the world and who ever lived. Okay? That’s your homework.
Yes, dear one?
SHIREEN: I just want to be sure on this. It’s been helpful for me in my life to think of each person as an individual coral polyp, and we’re all one global, coral reef. So obviously what’s going to happen in the waters, if they’re polluted, or if their trouble on one side is going to affect the harmony and the health and the entire coral reef, and the beauty of the life that it brings, and the overall mental and spiritual health, whatever. So it’s all pretty obvious if you look at it from that – I don’t know if that’s more micro- or macrocosmic, depending on how you approach it – but you see how obviously everyone would be impacted and affected. It’s just a very simple example, but something that people who have seen the beauty of reefs can appreciate.
ROSE: That is an excellent metaphor for the way of spirit. You can think of yourselves as coral, and as well, think of the coral as expansive enough to reach into many other dimensions, too.
SHIREEN: Sure.
ROSE: So use the metaphor to be the exciting, immense coral that you could possibly imagine, indeed.
BORIS: I mean, we’re talking about compassion and empathy. Let’s start with, like, going to the territory of morality and all this.
ROSE: Yes.
BORIS: Morality isn’t a by-product of your environment. You can’t just look at it singularly, because it’s the result of other things [inaudible] but if there is some kind of famine or war, people are just cruel to one another, then, that’s what people do, And if it’s a situation where everyone is comfortable and has a job, people are nice to one another.
ROSE: Maybe.
BORIS: [inaudible] the environment and just by looking at that, by itself is – you’re not looking at the whole picture. You’re just looking at the one element.
ROSE: But you’re only looking at the dimensions of behaviorism as a result of surroundings. There’s more to it than that, because your corporate world, for example, is fraught with corruption, but they have everything they need. So you can’t just boil down to only your outside world having impressions on you that create a, sort of, set of behaviors, in moral terms. You can’t just do that and expect to always get the returns, but there is some truth to that, yes. People do suffer. They tend to inflict suffering when they suffer. This is a very important point – we don’t want to miss this – but we do want to stress that the behaviors aren’t, in any way, necessarily dependent on the circumstances that one finds themselves in.
You don’t need to cause suffering because you’re suffering. The survivors of the holocaust did treat each other well, to many degrees. So you can trust that there was justness in the camps to them – not to their punishers, but to them. They did hold a certain sort of respect and honor of the individual sometimes. Sometimes they did not, but other times, for the most part, they did create a community of spirit together. Yes they did.
We know because we have focuses who do report in from time to time. They do assist now. They do suffer now. You are them, now.
GORDON: The survivors and the victims.
ROSE: All of them. You are them…
GORDON: Mmhm.
ROSE: …the Holocaust punishers, the Holocaust survivors, the Holocaust victims. Every single role that’s played in that play is you – all of them.
BORIS: So I have a question. You were saying earlier that we are all one, kind of like one organism. Sometimes I find myself feeling kind of blue. Now does that mean that something’s going on, other than just chemicals or whatever? Maybe other people have some kind of resonating thing with others?
ROSE: Yes, exactly. You’re wanting to express to yourself that you have more to you than meets the chemical response in your brain, indeed. There’s much more to you than that. So when you’re blue, remember you’re massively blue, in many ways, too. Now we’ll break if there are no more questions.
Yes, dear one.
SHIREEN: I have one question, but you may want to save it, it’s a biggy I think, but (Joanne laughs) I’ll let you decide (laughs).
ROSE: Okay.
GEORGE: (Humorously) Well, Rose, for me, I always consider the devil made me do it, (laughter), so I don’t have to feel any compassion.
ROSE: There you go.
GEORGE: You know….
ROSE: That’s George’s way of squawking?
GEORGE: But actually, wasn’t it Seth who said that in the Bible when Jesus says, “Turn the other cheek,” that’s to make the person that’s doing the hitting understand that they are only hurting themselves.
ROSE: That’s exactly right. The “turn the other cheek” gospel is not to say, “Hit me again.”
GEORGE: An eye for an eye.
ROSE: That’s right.
GEORGE: You’re actually hurting yourself when you’re hurting me.
ROSE: Right. And it’s not to say you can continue to hit me. You do need to stand up for yourself sometimes and not get pummeled to death. That’s more of the contrary Rose teachings, but we’ll say more later. Do take a break. We love you.[11]
(Rose departs: 7:02 PM.)
(Transcribed by Andrew McCusker, July 13, 2008.)
Check out Paul's review of this session.
Endnotes
[1] Paul’s note: For more info, see Sontering (Breathe in Your Essence Practice).
[2] Paul’s note: For more info, see Practices.
[3] Paul’s note: Joanne has exhibited a couple of instances where Rose allows a deceased friend or relative to come through (unpublished Session 36, May 08, 2007, and Session 48, May 17, 2007). These were brief encounters, and since what is conventionally called mediumship is not our main focus, we have not overly explored this avenue of Joanne/Rose’s abilities. Still, we are open-minded and curious about all aspects of the Rose phenomenon.
This was the second time that Rose has done so during a group session. The first involved another one of Rose’s tests. In Session 235, April 06, 2008, Rose allowed an Aspect of George D.’s friend, Charlie, to come through. It was later confirmed that Charlie was alive but in transition at the time. Rose appeared to tap into what she later said was an energy deposit of the sort that Elias has discussed. For more info, see Digests: energy deposits.
[4] Paul’s note: I had the strong impression of Rob’s presence, sitting on the couch in-between Joanne and Joyce on the open cushion. I kept fealing his presence in terms of his self-portrait throughout this portion of the session. Gail also reported energetic impressions in her body. (Self-portrait by Robert F. Butts. Photo by Rodney Davidson.)
[5] Paul’s note: According to Elias Rob Butts belonged-to Sumari and aligned-with Ilda. For more info, see Digests: Seth/Jane Roberts.
[6] Paul’s note: The exact quote is the last sentence of book material: “”Ruburt [Jane] has connections to make, and there will be other books of mine – and of his and yours – and centuries before we really begin what seems to have begun.” ~ pp. 437.
[7] Paul’s note: According to Elias, Joanne belongs-to Ilda and aligns-with Borledim. So they have a common Ilda intent. I should also mention that both Seth and Elias are on the record stating that Ilda is their favorite of the nine types, as they are Exchangers and often pollinate new ideas into foreign lands and cultures.
[8] Paul’s note: This seems to be Rose’s tact when engaging Joanne’s mediumistic abilities. Rose is not making them a central or main focus right now, and gently guiding us as we explore the myriad possibilities from an Aspect Psychology perspective, created by Jane Roberts. For more info on Aspects, see Dinner and A Dead Guy Reprise/Aspect Psychology - Pt. 1.
[9] Paul’s note: We subsequently added that practice to the website. For more info, see Discover Your Intent Name.
[10] Joanne’s note: In a private conversation about two weeks earlier, George and Sarah, his 11-year-old daughter, asked Rose for names of focuses that they share. Rose suggested they share a pirate focus, and gave Sarah the name “Tahiti Rose.” When George asked his focus’ name, we expected him to get a very pirate-y name, but Rose told him “Scruffy McGee,” and Sarah and I thought it was hysterically funny.
[11] Paul’s note: Due to unbearable heat and full bellies, the group had difficulty concentrating and broke up into smaller groups that continued to chat until 10 PM., but never mustered the collective will to reconvene, thus ending the session.